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Dr. Kaliym Islam is a former Wall Street executive where for over 20 years he led global learning businesses. New York Times best-selling author, Kevin Kurse (The e-Learning Guru describes him as a fresh voice among the usual author Guru crowd…, “who” …brings the credibility of someone who makes a living DOING, rather than TELLING.
Teams under his direction have been: 1. Named learning elite organizations by Chief Learning Officer Magazine. 2. Won International Society for Technical Communication (STC) awards for innovative learning content. 3. Cited by HR Futurist Josh Bersin as best practice learning organizations.
He’s written thousands of industry and academic articles and a number of books that focus on leadership, strategy, organizational development, and training and development. His most recent book, The 12 Inch Rule of Leadership: Proven Strategies for Career Success highlights how leaders in industry, government, higher education, k-12 and entrepreneurship utilized a common framework (The 12 Inch Rule) to achieve career success.
He’s currently an Assistant Professor of Practice at Southern Illinois University where he helps develop tomorrow’s educational leaders.
Questions
Highlights
Dr. Islam’s Journey
Dr. Islam shared that he looks at his journey, he’s got to go ahead and cite his inner Steve Jobs, you can’t connect the dots forward, you can only connect them backwards. So, if he looks at his journey, he would sort of summed up in two words or two phrases, innovation and taking chances.
So came out of the military, spent some time in the military after he screwed up in college for the first time and wanted to change the world. So, his plan was to change the world one child at a time.
So, he went into K-12 education and he started working, at that time, poor community of Bushwick, Brooklyn is now a destination place but at that time it wasn’t. It was one of those neighborhoods where you see the car panned by, you see the burnt-out buildings and graffiti on the wall and you hear the statistics about single mothers and drugs and AIDS and these types of things.
And what he did, he started teaching school there and he brought his military background, he brought his college fraternal background, and his love for technology into the classroom. And at that time, his customers were essentially the students and the parents and the administration. So, they put all those things together, being innovative and taking chances. And then students who really had not been successful in their academic careers, but suddenly started to achieve success. They had tremendous improvement. I leveraged that success and started writing curriculum, helping teachers use technology in the classroom.
So, he left his technology background, he left the classroom because he realized that in the classroom, he can only help probably 30 students at a time but if he was in a more of an administrative position, he could impact policy which could impact more students. So, he took a job as an assistant principal at an alternative high school in Manhattan, overseeing their technology and basically migrating them from at that time was an Apple Mac environment into a PC environment.
So, his interests started getting more and more toward technology and how technology can help people learn. Well, it was about that time that his wife informed him that the salary of a school teacher did not afford her the life that she felt that she deserved.
So, he started looking at other opportunities and he actually went to Wall Street, initially to do some technology stuff and they were actually deploying a new technology system. And he was in a meeting, the teacher in him never left so he asked what was a dumb question back then, he said, “Well, what’s going to happen on Monday morning, when you deploy a brand-new email system on Friday afternoon?”
And they said, “Well, we’re going to get a lot of calls to the help desk, and there’s going to be problems.” And he said, “So are you positioned to support that?” Well, they said, “Well, look, No, we’re not.” And he said, “Well, what should we do?” He said, “You should train people, you should give them an education program. What you should do is, rather than teach everyone at the same time, you rotate and bring one department into the training, while they’re in the training, you deploy the software to their desktop. So right after having been trained on it, they can use it right away.”
Next question was who can develop the training?
He was a school teacher, had a degree in instructional design. So, he went home that weekend, wrote the training program, and they deployed and it was very successful.
Fast forward a few months later, they were deploying another software system, same situation occurred. He was in a meeting, they said they’re going to deploy it, he asked a dumb question, “What’s going to happen when you don’t train people?” Same scenario occurred. He went home, built the training program and did the training, they had success. And then they had a third software system that they were deploying, everyone looked at him and said, “Kaliym, can you do the training?” He said, “Absolutely not. No way. No way, Jose.”
And they said, “Well, why not? You did it before.” He said, Yeah, but we’re playing whack a mole here. We’re just reacting, we need a more strategic approach to go ahead to doing this training. He literally went home that weekend that was refused writer, he wrote a strategic training plan for the company with, of course, him at the head of this technical training department. He walked in on Monday morning, gave the president of the company his proposal, he looked at him and said, “Well, start hiring your staff.” So, that was his full foray into sort of corporate supervision and corporate training.
So, they had a lot of success there, he had responsibility for employees. And then they realized that what they were doing for employees could be extended to clients. And so, they said, “Okay, Kaliym, you now have responsibility for customer training.”
And when he looked at the landscape, he realized that it really didn’t make a lot of sense to build a staff of 50, 60, 100s of trainers to train customers, because when the need and you got to look back that was sort of late 90s, where people were just learning how to use Microsoft Word, learning how to use Excel, and all these other productivity programs.
So, they realized that okay, once everyone is taught, they don’t need all these trainers. So again, in the spirit of innovation and taking chances, they started working with what at that time was called CD ROM training. So, they’d actually program the training on a CD ROM, you would send it out to the various locations and that’s how people would take their training. So, he left there after doing some good stuff there, another company asked him to come in and oversee or bring in technology.
So that’s what they did, they brought in technology for another firm. He just basically kept on sort of ascending up the ladder, and all these experiences, whether it was bringing in a new technology or different approaches or bringing in learning management systems. He always wanted to help people, so he would write about it in industry magazines and then he got started being asked to speak about things like that.
And at some point, after a bunch of years, and this is something that he’s neglected to say after his wife let him know that a school teacher didn’t make the money that afforded her the life that she thought she deserved. Dr. Islam leaving education K through 12 education broke his mother’s heart because she thought he had a gift. And he promised her, he said, “Mom, I promise I’ll go back at some point.”
So, after 20 years of doing that, and having a lot of success, he said, it’s time for him to fulfil his promise to his mother. And he left corporate America, and started doing what his mother asked him to do was going back into education. So, he took on a job as a professor at Southern Illinois University and opened up a small boutique educational consulting firm and now he’s sitting here having a great conversation with Yanique.
Summarizing Dr. Islam’s Book – The 12 Inch Rule of Leadership: Proven Strategies for Career Success and Who is it Really Targeted Towards
Me: Your book, The 12 Inch Rule of Leadership: Proven Strategies for Career Success, could you share with our listeners what that whole framework is about? I’m aware of the fact that it consists of time value, best performance of duty, perseverance, the worth of example, the virtue of patience, talent, expression, economic wisdom, the value of character, kindly attitudes and pleasure in work, and the worth of the organization and the dignity of simplicity. So, it’s a lot but could you summarize for us in the best way possible, just for our listeners to get an idea of what this framework entails and who is it really targeted towards? Is it just for persons who are new and emerging leaders or people who’ve been in leadership roles for years? Is this something they could take on to maybe sharpen their leadership skills?
Dr. Islam shared that it’s certainly something that anyone can take on to sharpen their leadership skills. So, the background with The 12 Inch Rule, he is a member of a historically black fraternity or sorority, Phi Beta Sigma. And he’s sure that all fraternities and sororities have these types of things where essentially, there are things that you have to learn to become a member, things you have to memorize.
And one of the things that he had to memorize when he was going through his process was The 12 Inch Rule, and that was close to 40 years ago. And like you said, The 12 Inch Rule time value, best performance of duty, perseverance, the worth of example, the virtue of patience, kind of expression, economic wisdom, the value of character, kindly attitudes, pleasure in work, the worth of organization, the dignity of simplicity, he can’t tell you what he had for breakfast this morning. But after close to 40 years, he can rattle those things off like it’s nothing. And what he started to observe over the years is that folks who joined this organization fell into two camps, those who, like him could remember it and rattle it off and those who would say, “Hey, that was a long time ago, I don’t remember it.”
And what he observed was that the ones who remembered this rule, and these principles, the 12 principles of the rule, their career trajectory seem to be steep. Whereas the ones that didn’t remember that I said it was a long time ago, not that they all didn’t have successful careers, but their trajectory wasn’t as steep.
So, the academic in him try to understand why is this happening. So, he actually set out to do an academic study, his plan was to do research and get this published in a peer reviewed journal to solidify his academic chops. Now, after about the third interview, it blew his mind. He said, oh, my God, the stories that he’s hearing from these members in terms of what they did, how they applied the principles and how it led to career success was mind boggling. And he said, “Well, I can’t leave this in an academic journal, there’s got to be more of a wider distribution of this information, because it can help a lot of people.” So, they became agile and they basically stopped on a dime and said, “Okay, listen, we’re not going to write this in a language that’s geared toward academics, we’re going to write this in a language that’s geared toward playing people who are trying to reach their full potential in terms of their leadership potential, who want to be able to communicate their value, who are tired of being looked over for promotion and who are trying to become better as leaders.” And that’s what they did.
And they interviewed 14 different members in a variety of industries, from K-12, to higher education, to entrepreneurs, to people who are working in financial services, people who are working in government.
The tips and tricks and recommendations that they put out there was helpful to him, it reminded him of a lot, it taught him a lot, it helped him become a better leader. And he knows it’s going to help other people.
Just tell one story. His son, he’s got a 21-year-old, who he can never get to read anything, ever. In fact, when he was a kid, he tried to pay him to read books, wouldn’t happen. He picked this book up and said “Dad, wow, this is pretty good, this is going to be helpful for me, some of the recommendations that they’re talking about in the book, I can use on my job.”
He gave it to some of his college friends. Now these are after millennials, Gen Z? They don’t read anything, except Snapchat. But his son started sending him pictures of his friends that they were sending him pictures of them reading the book, because they were so excited by it.
So, to your question, he thinks no, it’s not just the new and emerging leader, he thinks sort of old folks like him can learn from the book also. Younger folks who really haven’t necessarily gotten to a position where they’re supervising, he thinks they can get something out of it, he’s seen it from his son’s friends. And he’s got a bunch of folks who in the middle, in between who have read the book and said, “This has really been helpful to me.”
A Breakdown of The 12 Principles
Dr. Islam shared that he’s going to do that but he wants to take a step back. So, the beauty of this is, is there are no operational definitions. So, time value, it’s something you need to measure yourself by, but the fact that there’s no operational definition really gives you the opportunity to apply it in a way that makes sense for you. So, time value as an as an example, it’s just that valuing your time. So, if you show up late or his interpretation of it, if you show up late. Number one, you’re not valuing the time of the person who you’re supposed to have a meeting.
Number one, if you’re not spending your time on the right things, okay, you’re not valuing time. So, one of the contributors in the book, his name is Jean-Guy Lauture, and he’s the Chief Learning Officer for the city of Bloomingdale or township of Bloomingdale in New Jersey. So, he tells a story about how when he showed up at the City Hall one day, and he was working on one problem, one technology problem that was happening while he was visiting.
Now, while he was there, he got wind that they had been experiencing some ransomware. So, some bad actor threw some ransomware on the computers of the township that will put a lot of other things in jeopardy. Now, the issue that he initially came to deal with was important, and that he initially expected to spend his time. But as soon as the other issue came up, he realized his time is better served addressing the ransomware issue and, on a dime, he shifted his resources. And all the people who contributed to the book have different stories about how you can value your time.
Number two is best performance of duty. It seems simple enough, but how do you do your best when you don’t feel your best? That there in is the challenge. And he tells a story in the book, one of his experiences was, someone in his organization quit relatively quickly, they actually lost two levels in organization, and he had to step in, and basically perform as a technician and a project manager sort of well below his depth, out of his depth.
He’s more of a strategy guy, so that sort of level of detail really killed him. But if they didn’t do a good job for the client, they were not going to take on some additional business. So, even though he hated the work, even though it was out of his depth, even though it was something he really, really, really did not like to do, he had to perform his depth, he had to perform his best at all time. So, that’s just one story.
Perseverance, how do you keep fighting through when things get rough?
Me: And I think that’s applicable to anybody. I mean, not even leaders, just human beings, because things don’t stay easy all the time.
Dr. Islam agreed. That’s the point. He tells the story in the book, there was a time when he initially came to Wall Street to do technology stuff and he was overseeing, at that time, they call it desktop support. So, this is before all this remote stuff where you can just take over someone’s computer.
Back then you literally had to go to the person’s desk and install the software and plug everything in. So, that was his job, he oversaw a team to do that.
And they had a project to install it in a place within financial services called the cashiers, they call it the king, that the terminology that if you’re on Wall Street, because the only people that go into that department are the people that work there, they really don’t get visitors.
So, if a strange person comes in, all conversation stops, it gets really quiet, and they watch as you walk across the floor. So, his job was to deploy some PCs to that organization and to do it, he had to get the blessing of the guy they call the King of the Cage, his name was Fred Quiñones, he was an executive VP there, worked his way up from the mailroom, and let everybody know that he enjoyed his position, he was the kingmaker. So, he sent an email to Fred trying to set up a meeting so they could schedule the deployment of the PCs, it went unanswered. Left a voicemail, went unanswered, so he did what he used to do back then. He would do what he calls a drive by, he would just stop by his office and start a conversation.
He walks into the cashiers and there’s silence, everyone watches as he walked across the floor. And he gets to the corner office, and in front of Fred and he’s got a glass office so you can see he’s in there reading his newspaper, and in front of his office is his assistant, his gatekeeper, Ann Galante. And he introduced himself, and said he’d like to speak to Fred. She says, “Well, he’s busy.”
Now mind you, he’s looking at the guy reading a newspaper. She says, “Well, he’s busy, come back later.” So, he goes back, another email, another phone call.
He figured let him show up at a different time of day. So, he showed up maybe 12 in the afternoon, same scenario, get into the cashiers, noise stops, he walks across the hallway, or across the room, look at Fred reading his newspaper, he asked Ann if he could speak with him, “He’s busy.”
So, this happened three or four times and now his boss is saying, “Hey, when are you going to get those PCs deployed?”So, he’s feeling some pressure. He said, let me just try one more time. So, he shows up again, same scenario, he’s walking back dejected and a gentleman pulls him aside.
He says, “Listen, you’re disrespecting Fred. He’s an important man, he’s a busy man and you show up here in the middle of the day, he doesn’t like it.” Fred shows up in the morning at 7:00 am, he likes jelly doughnuts and he likes his coffee sweet and light.
So, the next morning, he shows up at 6:45 am with jelly doughnuts and coffee, Fred walks in, he’s sitting outside of his office, Fred walks in and he said, “Hey, Fred, I hear you like jelly doughnuts and coffee.” He said, “Come on, Kaliym. Come on in.” He didn’t even know he knew his name.
Long story short, they did the project, everything worked out well, they were successful. And at one point, during the middle of the day, he needed to meet with Fred, he couldn’t wait till a 6:00 am jelly donut meeting.
So, he goes across the cashiers and by this time, no noise stops, everyone keeps working, they don’t even notice him. He walks across the floor, Fred is in his office, obviously in a busy meeting, he’s looking at Ann saying, “I really need to meet Fred.”
Fred looks up, he walks out of his office, he says, “What do you need Kaliym?” He lets him know. He tells other people in the office, “I got to be with Kaliym.” And he kicks them out. So, the tide certainly changed. So, he’s walking out of the cashiers’ area and this guy Ron Kowalski, certain names you remember in your career. He says, “You know, Kaliym, most people stop after the second effort, I’m glad you kept going.” Perseverance.
The worth of example. They have Joe West and he’s a Harvard trained epidemiologist in the book, and he runs a small boutique consulting firm, he happens to be African American.
And he tells a story of before the advent of the internet, we can just go online and see anyone’s name, he was working on a deal with a client and things were working well. And he actually got the opportunity to go to the executive offices and meet with them.
So, he goes to the offices and Secretary puts him in the room and the executives come in and as soon as they walk in, he could see from the look on their face that they didn’t expect that Dr. Joseph West from Harvard was an African American.
So, there’s an awkward moment in the beginning, but then they start to make small talk and then they realize that Joe West, he likes a lot of the same things they do, he likes to golf, he likes to smoke cigars and guess what, he loves Ronald Reagan.
Long story short, Joe gets the job, his team does a phenomenal job for the client. And then the client asked him, “Hey, do you have any of the firms that are just like you who can do some other work for us?”
So, of course, Joe goes and recommends another firm, they happen to be African American also. So, he tells a story of how joyful he was when he came back to do a report for these executives and he sees the firm that he recommended in the hallway or outside by the Secretary is waiting to meet with the executives. And he believes it’s because of the example that he set as a business owner and how he presented himself. The worth of example.
Next one is the virtue of patience. So, they have a story in the book, Michael Dove. And Michael Dove is an executive at PCSU, which is a financial services firm, he’s actually located in St. Petersburg, Florida.
And he tells a story of how his team used to get frustrated because they would make recommendations to the executives and the executives wouldn’t act on them.
And what he had to instill in his team was, if you have a good idea, that idea is going to remain good, you’ve got to be patient, don’t discard everything that you’ve done, because they’re going to come back around and they’re going to use that idea.
So, what he did he, he made sure that anytime one of his team members made a recommendation that was rejected, that they kept all the documentation. And what they started seeing was that a lot of times they would make these recommendations and while they were initially rejected, sometime 4 or 5, 6 months later, they would be accepted.
And had they not learned to be patient, they might have gotten rid of all the documentation that was associated with some of those recommendations of those projects. And that’s really about making sure folks understand what you can do, what you’re capable of and sometime that’s also tricky, because sometimes when you let people know what you’re capable of doing, they look at it as bragging. But if you don’t do it, it could cause some other issues.
In one of the organizations that he led, they had a woman who she was a documentation specialist, but she loved doing voiceovers and she did that on the side to make money.
And they were having a lot of trouble finding affordable voice over talent, they tried to outsource stuff to different countries, but the accents just didn’t work out.
And he remembered one day in a skip level, he thinks was a two-down meeting, they’re having some conversations about where she wants to go in her career and what she does when she’s not in work and she mentioned, “Well, I do voiceovers.” “Like, wow, we need voiceover talent here for some of the work that we’re doing.” So had she not spoken up and talked about what she’s good at, she would never have had that opportunity, she parlayed that into a bunch of other great personal and business opportunities.
Economic wisdom. So, they have a story in the book, Nigel Coelho, and he works for the folks that make the coffee for Starbucks and these other sort of coffee houses. And he speaks to, “I always have to remember, hey, this isn’t my money, this is the company’s money.”
So, he has to look at it like that, he can’t spend it in the wrong way. So, they had to make a decision at one point about whether they invest in a $50 million project, which was in one area versus a $30 million project, which was in another area, and the more expensive investment would have been great for his organization, but not for the company. So, using this economic wisdom, he made the decision to do what was best for the best for the company.
The value of character they have this individual, Reverend Dr. Tyree Anderson, and he tells the story of how he took over as the new Pastor of a church in Alabama. And the old Pastor would let anyone walk in at any time. He didn’t want people walking in to cause disturbance with the sermon.
So, he implemented a rule that if you weren’t there when the sermon started, there were certain times during the service where people could come in. And so, this was new to some of the older parishioners. So, there was a woman, when she was able to come in, they were having sort of meet and greet when he walks around and greet the new visitors, and she literally cursed him out as he was walking on the floor in the church, and he talks about how it took everything in him to maintain control and maintain good character, even though his character was being assaulted in front of everyone.
Kindly attitude. So, they have Kobina Thomas, who was an executive for UPS United Postal Services in New York. And he tells a story about how he had to let someone go but he had to do it in a way that maintained respect for the person who he was letting go and maintained respect for him.
Pleasure in work. They have a lawyer, Cedric Ashley, who is the editor of one of these legal associations, a Quarterly Journal. And he speaks to the importance of finding something in work that gives you pleasure or else it’s all agony.
And he tells a story of helping a woman who was terminated unfairly and the joy that he got from doing that, not because she compensated him, and he did get compensated well, but just to see how relieved she was when the stress of everything was happening in her life, how he was able to take that off of her shoulder and the pleasure that he got in that. And he also speaks to that what you consider pleasure in work changes over the cause of your career. So, an 18-year-old who’s going to look at it differently than a 15-year-old in the workforce.
Then we have the worth of organization. They have Will Worley who is a principal at a school in East Orange, New Jersey, and he just tells a story about just being organized and making sure everyone is on the same page and how he was able to leverage that to provide educational services to his students and his community during COVID.
And then lastly, the dignity of simplicity. So, they have Jerome Evans, and Jerome is a former National Championship for the University of Florida Gators football team. But he’s also an executive at a company that sells industrial materials to big construction firms.
And he just talks about the importance of treating everyone with dignity and speaking in a way not to show us how smart you are, but speaking in a way that people get it, and how he speaks the same way to his billionaire clients as he does to the people that clean his house and how that’s impacted his leadership.
So, we’ve got a lot of stories. But again, these principles are ones that individuals can interpret and use in a way that works for them.
App, Website or Tool that Dr. Islam Absolutely Can’t Live Without in Him Business
When asked about an online resource that he can’t live without in his business, Dr. Islam shared that Basecamp is essentially a communication tool. So, he knows a lot of companies are going to sort of agile project management tools, whether it’s monday.com or Plutio or Xero, those types of things.
But Basecamp, for him is a great tool for project communication so it allows any documents, you can upload it, if there’s a communication, whether it’s through email, or you type it directly into Basecamp, all the communication comes there. So, for him in terms of staying organized and knowing what’s going on with projects that he’s working on, clients he’s helping, Basecamp is required.
Books That Have Had the Greatest Impact on Dr. Islam
When asked about books that have had an impact, Dr. Islam shared that he’ll give a couple. So, one is Our Iceberg is Melting: Changing and Succeeding Under Any Conditions by John Kotter, phenomenal book, most people are familiar with Who Moved My Cheese. And that book is about basically show up and things have changed, so you have no choice but to react to it. Our Iceberg is Melting is a story of a colony of penguins believe it or not, and this one penguin Fred, he’s friends with everybody else, but he likes to go off and learn things. He likes to dive underneath the iceberg and at some point, Fred sees a bubble in the bottom of the iceberg and it hits him, “Hey, I think our iceberg must be melting.” Now, he doesn’t have a lot of evidence and from the story, Fred is really a junior person. But he’s got to now convinced the entire colony of penguins that they’ve got to change their way of life, because if they don’t, they’re going to die because the iceberg is melting. And he has to do that with just a little bit of evidence that’s below the iceberg that’s really inconclusive.
And to him, that’s the job of a leader, that you can’t just focus on the here and now, you have to be looking at what’s going to happen, what are some things that may cause your business to demise?
Or what are some opportunities you need to take advantage of that’s going to help your organization be successful and a lot of times you don’t find those things at the surface, you got to dive underneath the surface to find those things. So, that book is tremendously important to him, has been helpful.
The One Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard, because that’s all about supervision and communication, and doing it in a way that allows you to maintain first principle, 12 Inch Rule, time value.
Another one is Strengths Based Leadership: Great Leaders, Teams, and Why People Follow by Tom Rath, so rather than forcing people to do things they don’t do well, why not put them in a position where they can spend most of their time doing the things that they’re naturally good at? So, those are the three that he would share.
What Dr. Islam is Really Excited About Now!
Dr. Islam shared that what I’m really, really excited about now, he’s actually has a presentation scheduled in South Carolina for a large international organization, and they’re doing a session on how do you take your organization from good to great. So, he’s really psyched up about that, they’ve sent out a bunch of surveys to get a sense of how individuals who are going to be at this conference, how they feel about it and after looking at these surveys, they’re going to be really surprised that they’re not as good as they think they are. So, he’s really excited about helping them figure out, “Okay, how do we take ourselves from where we are and get to the next level?” So, he’s really looking forward.
Where Can We Find Dr. Islam Online
Company Website – www.thetrainingproacademy.com
Personal Website – www.drkaliymaislam.com
Twitter – @thetrainingpro
LinkedIn – @thetrainingproacademy
LinkedIn – Dr. Kaliym Islam
Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Dr. Islam Uses
When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert to, Dr. Islam shared the term it comes from a poem that from Muhammad Ali is called, “Impossible is nothing.”
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